Can farmers move to the city just by selling their homes? Be careful, you may be falling for a big scam

Should farmers' homestead land be allowed on the market? What are the prospects for large-scale operation of rural land? With the release of this year's No. 1 Central Document, how should the confirmation of rural land contractual management rights be carried out? Yesterday, Chen Xiwen, member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference and deputy head of the Central Rural Work Leading Group, accepted an exclusive interview with The Beijing News. He believes that many people care about farmers' homestead land entering the market not because they truly have farmers' interests at heart, but because they want a second home in the countryside.

On "urbanization"

Some suggestions for homestead land to enter the market are not for farmers' sake

The Beijing News: You have opposed the campaign of moving farmers upstairs for several years. How do you view this matter now?

Chen Xiwen: It is not about whether I oppose or support it, but that the state has laws, and we act according to the law. In the state's institutional design, there are very clear provisions on land use. But whether this matter infringes on the interests of the masses is something most people should have a basic judgment about. I think some media support moving farmers upstairs and always report how beautiful rural construction is now, making many people who do not live in rural areas think farmers' lives have improved and that moving farmers upstairs is a good thing. But farmers are unwilling.

The Beijing News: Many people suggest that farmers' homestead land and rural construction land should freely enter the market. What do you think?

Chen Xiwen: Many things sound nice, but the real intention lies elsewhere. Many people are not really thinking for farmers, but want to get a piece of land in the countryside and build a house. Do they not know how much a house in Beijing city is worth? How much a house in a county town is worth, and how much a farmer gets from selling a house. After selling it, how do you expect farmers to settle in the city, and who will provide the money they lack?

The Beijing News: Now the central government proposes vigorously developing urbanization, and many places also propose letting farmers enter the city. If farmers are not allowed to sell their houses, how can they enter the city?

Chen Xiwen: Anyone who thinks that by selling the house in their hometown they can become urban residents once they enter the city must have fallen for a big scam. Even if rural homestead land is sold, it is not worth much. When the time comes, they cannot go back, and they cannot afford to buy in the city, so what then? Urbanization across the world is a natural process. For example, in the past many people from Ningbo and Jiangbei went to Shanghai to work alone, and slowly, when conditions allowed, they brought their whole families over. For a farmer and a family to truly move to the city, it cannot be done without three or four generations.

On "land transfer"

After confirmation and registration, farmers dare to operate on a large scale

The Beijing News: In some places, land transfer and operation are not very good. Why does this problem occur?

Chen Xiwen: By the end of June last year, the total area of land transferred in China was 380 million mu, accounting for about 28.8% of all farmers' contracted land. In a few places it looks poor, but overall it is stable. On the other hand, in recent years grain output has been steadily increasing, and farmers' incomes have been steadily increasing, so the overall trend will not have too many major problems.

The confirmation, registration and certification of rural land contractual management rights currently under way is a usufructuary right. After farmers' rights are confirmed, farmers dare to transfer land and also dare to operate on a large scale.

The Beijing News: Many places bring industrial and commercial capital into agriculture. What do you think of the prospects?

Chen Xiwen: Some places invite companies and enterprises in. Some are successful, but I think more are unsuccessful. But one cannot generalize and say it definitely will not work. For example, to build a large modern livestock farm, a villagers' committee cannot do it, and the investment may require several hundred million yuan, but an industrial and commercial enterprise can do it. But when an enterprise leases thousands or even tens of thousands of mu of land to plant crops, this needs careful consideration.

The Beijing News: Now the state advocates developing large-scale planting. Why is corporate planting not acceptable?

Chen Xiwen: China has 170 million farmers who have gone to other townships, accounting for more than 30% of the rural labor force, and the land transfer mentioned above is nearly 30%, so there are no problems now. But if the scale of land transfer becomes large, and more than half of the land is concentrated, then where will the remaining rural labor force go?

The state advocates large-scale operation, but it must also follow the trend. The essence of large-scale operation is not land, but people. When people go elsewhere and have better work and income, you cannot hold them back. But if they cannot find better work and income, why should they leave the land? I think this matter must proceed from reality.

The Beijing News: Why do some local governments support corporate capital entering agricultural production?

Chen Xiwen: Excessive government intervention will produce bad results. Many places say that for concentrating 100 mu of land, they will subsidize a certain amount per mu. Some enterprises go precisely for the subsidies, and some even think further: first enclose the land and see, and if there is a chance later to carry out non-agricultural construction, it will be more profitable. So there are all kinds of ideas. But what is certain is that enterprises go first of all to make money.

But I dare say that people who truly engage in agriculture know that farming cannot be solved by hired labor. Because these hired workers may slack off and not work. Agricultural planting is different from industry; there is no standardized assembly line. After planting for a year, in the end you may find that you have been fooled for the whole year.