Love and Tenderness in a Bento: Saffron in Conversation with Peng Xian-hui of Small Room Books & Vegetables

"Family" is a child's first learning environment after birth. Through daily life habits and the transmission of values, parents not only lay the foundation for their children's future learning and growth, but also cultivate the attitudes and abilities children need to face the future. At different stages of growth, the family continues to play different roles in supporting the child.

Starting from everyday meals, the food on the dining table is the best classroom for food education. The value of friendly food and farming is not only about food safety, but is also closely tied to the Earth's environment and animal welfare. Using "bringing a bento" -- a shared life experience between parents and children -- as our entry point, we have invited writer Saffron and Peng Xian-hui, the proprietress of Small Room Books & Vegetables in Yilan, to have a conversation from the perspective of two mothers on food and farming education and parenting. We also take this opportunity to peek into these two moms' delicious bento secrets!

About the Interviewees

Saffron

Wang Bi-zhu, who writes under the pen name "Saffron," is a parenting and green food writer. She originally worked in advertising and the fashion industry. In order to think about the next step in her career and life, and to not be absent during the final stage of her children's childhood, she chose to leave a job that ran from nine in the morning to nine at night and began writing on a blog. With delicate and sincere prose, she documented the process and insights of parent-child interaction, becoming a widely trusted parenting writer, and also shared her own practice of green eating starting from her own life. Currently focused on home cooking research, she is an advisor to the "Green Dining Guide" and a columnist for Agri Media, Okapi, Apple Daily, and others. She is the author of "Kitchen Love Song," "Views Outside the Classroom," and "What Can You Talk About with Your Children."

Saffron Facebook
Saffron Table Fan Page

Peng Xian-hui

In 2014, Peng Xian-hui and her husband Jiang Ying-de came to Yuanshan, Yilan, and set up "Small Room Books & Vegetables" based in a renovated twenty-year-old former rice mill. They sell "Small Room Rice" grown with their own friendly farming methods, as well as Yilan friendly small-farmer crops and related food products, run a second-hand book exchange and sale, sell cultural and creative goods, and hold irregular events on agriculture, art, and literature. Beyond running the shop, Peng Xian-hui frequently shares information about friendly farming, small-farmer home cooking, and parent-child interactions on social media, and is widely popular.

Small Room Books & Vegetables Website
Small Room Books & Vegetables Fan Page

Love and Tenderness in a Bento Q&A

Q1: Both of you are practitioners of friendly food and farming in your daily lives, and you promote these values through farming, cooking, and writing. Could you share your respective journeys of practice, and how these journeys have changed your lives?

Peng Xian-hui (hereafter "Peng"):At the very beginning, it was actually because of my child. My son Half-Orc has mild Asperger's syndrome, and from a young age he had some difficulties with expression, communication, and emotional control, and because of this he was rejected by several kindergartens. After transferring to a Waldorf school in Taichung, where the school places great emphasis on dietary control -- choosing organic ingredients, eating less red meat, completely banning sugar -- along with some more spiritual learning, Half-Orc's emotions gradually became more stable. From that time we began following the school's philosophy and adjusted our diet in daily life. My husband also rented a very small plot of farmland from the Taichung City Government and started growing vegetables for our own consumption. Because it was for our own eating, we naturally chose not to use pesticides or fertilizers in the process. This experience later inspired us to move to Yilan and take up farming life, continuing the original friendly growing methods. So in terms of practicing friendly food and farming, at the beginning there wasn't any lofty ideal.

Saffron (hereafter "Fan"):Like Xian-hui, it was also because of my child. I was originally an office worker, and at that time most of my meals were eaten out. Twenty-some years ago, the concept of friendly food and farming wasn't as widespread, and I didn't have particularly strong thoughts about diet myself. After becoming a mother, I started reading and researching, thinking about what kind of diet to give my child. "Colostrum" can be said to be a mother's first choice regarding her child's diet. At that time, starting from breastfeeding, I became increasingly particular about food. Breastfeeding is actually very difficult, but the books wrote about the importance of colostrum and how nutritious breast milk is, so for my child I persisted. As my children grew, their needs for food differed at each stage. I began paying more attention to where ingredients came from, and came into contact with the Homemakers United Foundation, and started buying organic and non-GMO ingredients. At that time these issues were just beginning to be discussed, and everyone around me thought I was strange. Some even worried I had been scammed -- how could I buy such expensive vegetables?By comparison, I think people today are very fortunate, because when pursuing safe and reassuring ingredients, there are so many choices.

Q2: From a mother's perspective, what kind of influence do you hope to have on your children through practicing the values of friendly food and farming in daily life?

Peng:After coming to Yilan to farm, I gradually got to know other local farmers who also practice friendly principles -- some grow vegetables, some raise chickens for eggs. Normally we eat ingredients grown by ourselves and by fellow farmers, but moms are lazy (laughs), and occasionally we still eat out. And because we need to satisfy Half-Orc's big appetite, the place we eat at most often is mini hot pot. Because we're used to eating good ingredients normally, Half-Orc is especially picky about plain white rice, and he doesn't dare eat the vegetables or hot pot ingredients outside -- really just because he's afraid of dying (laughs). But my daughter Pineapple's food preferences are completely different. She likes fried food and cookies, and when eating out she most often says she wants french fries, fried chicken, and pasta. I don't know why I raised two children with completely different personalities, but I myself am not that strict about restricting my children's diet. In daily life I try to give them good food as much as possible, and once a month on "only child day" I take each of them out to eat what they want. As fortheir future food preferences and choices, I will respect them.

Fan:Actually, Xian-hui and her family live in such an environment, eating good ingredients every day that city people would envy! As for my own part, when my children were in elementary school I controlled their diet quite strictly. For sweets given to the children, I paid great attention to the source of ingredients and factory registration numbers, and I also tried to make desserts myself as much as possible. So from a young age I taught them to make chiffon cake and macarons.And I've observed that some truly meaningful influences happen after children grow up.Now both of my children are in university, and there are many more opportunities to eat out, but they themselves especially care about animal-friendly and humane farming issues. When eating out they try to eat less meat, because meat requires relatively more environmental cost and sacrifice. On the other hand, good meat won't be too cheap, so even as university students with little money, they don't make cost-performance ratio their main consideration when choosing what to eat.

Also, like Xian-hui, I don't cook every day either. Occasionally I'll eat fast food too. Many people assume my children and I don't eat fast food, and everyone generally thinks it's unhealthy, but actually the fast food industry is quite strict about food safety controls, so it's fairly safe, and eating it occasionally has a quite healing effect on the heart (laughs).

Peng:That's right, our family occasionally eats fast food too!

Q3: This feature uses "bringing a bento" as its entry point. Could you tell us what your childhood experiences with bentos were like?

Fan:When we were young there was no school lunch, so bringing a bento was the only option. My mother was a working woman who got up very early every day to make breakfast and bentos for us. So after my children started elementary school, I also insisted on preparing their bentos every morning before leaving the house, and I did this all the way until they graduated from high school. Even now that they're in university, I still require them to bring a bento made by mom two fixed days a week.

Peng:My bento experience was actually terrible. The cook in our family was my father. Because he was a mainlander immigrant, his cooking flavors continued the habits of his hometown -- that "veteran soldier style" of food: braised beef, braised eggs, braised dried tofu. His favorite dish to make was "sha cha beef with stir-fried water spinach," because the flavor of sha cha reminded him of a kind of marinade from Hubei. In the past, my bento was always the dishes from the previous night's dinner. Various braised items and sha cha beef with stir-fried water spinach were my everyday bento fare. In that era, school rice steamers weren't as powerful as they are now, so my bento came out of the steamer looking terrifying -- soft, mushy white rice, braised beef turned into beef jerky, dried tofu turned into hard dried tofu, water spinach completely blackened, and sha cha spread on top like actual sand. During those days I envied my classmates' bentos -- so pretty and they looked delicious -- while my own bento looked like the smoking remains of a battlefield just after a bombing (bitter laugh). So my childhood bento experience was very bad.

The most memorable time was when my father was away on a business trip, and my mother, who normally never cooked, was responsible for our bentos. She went out and bought a bag of Taiwanese salt-and-pepper fried chicken, came back and poured it directly onto freshly cooked rice. The next day the bento came out of the steamer looking equally terrifying. So part of my bento experience is also about how to secretly dump it out.

Q4: When preparing bentos for your children, what are your main design principles?

Fan:The only design principle I have for preparing bentos is that there should be three dishes in total: one meat dish plus two vegetable dishes. And because Iprepare them the same morning, I hope the bento can be made quickly.It's always pan-fried or stir-fried.I think a bento being tasty and nutritious is the most important thing.Fortunately, in my bento-making era there was no such thing as social media, so there was no pressure when making bentos. Now I see that many dishes in bento books are so labor-intensive, with lots of deliberate shapes or many time-consuming dishes made just for color coordination. For me, quick dishes like preserved radish omelette or basil omelette are the rhythm of our everyday bento making. So my bentos are all very simple, but my children know they're delicious!

Peng:Agreed! And the bentos photographed in books all use delicate Japanese-style bento boxes, which have very small capacity -- very impractical, not nearly enough for my children to eat! Half-Orc wouldn't care at all whether it looks good.He only cares whether it tastes good and whether it's filling. I don't have any principles for the design part; basically I just think of things based on seasonal vegetables.Of course they have vegetables they don't like, and I won't force them to eat them, because there are quite a lot of things I don't like to eat myself (laughs). Once when I wasn't feeling well, I let Half-Orc cook for himself, and he brought himself a "little chicken drumstick rice bowl." When the bento box was opened there were ten chicken drumsticks in total and no vegetables at all. The teacher even asked about why his bento had no greens. But for Pineapple, because she doesn't like being different from her classmates and she also thinks school lunch tastes better, I didn't have her bring a bento from home.

Q5: Through bentos, what kind of "taste of mom" do you want to convey?

Fan:I think eating is a very important matter. Everyone carries some influence from their family of origin's dietary background. I hope that when my children eat my cooking, they can feel mom's care and know that mom loves them very much.Through bentos, I also hope to let them feel that they are loved, cared for, and caught when they fall.

Peng:I don't have that! (laughs) When I make bentos I don't think about it that much. But I think the feeling of having the bento eaten up is very meaningful to me, or sometimes the children will take the initiative to say they want to eat a dish I haven't cooked in a long time.In that moment I feel encouraged, some part of me feels fulfilled, and I feel as if I've been remembered by my children.

Q6: Through your own influence, what message do you hope to convey to the public about the value of friendly food and farming?

Fan: We all influence the entire world and this land through what we eat. I hope everyone will support organic and friendly agriculture more and pay more attention to animal welfare.I think this is very important. When everyone supports these values and demand for such products rises, it will encourage more people to enter this industry, and prices will have a chance to drop to a level most people can and are willing to afford, thus forming a positive cycle through consumption. On the other hand, humans have never had it so easy when it comes to cooking. In the past it was very inconvenient to buy good ingredients. Now if you want to buy the best meat or the best oil, anything can be easily obtained online, so I also encourage everyone to cook at home as much as possible!

Peng:Exactly! Everyone hurry up and buy our rice so I can quickly become a rich lady (laughs)! Speaking of cooking, I've noticed there are many cooking shows on TV now, with handsome male chefs or some celebrity chef teaching everyone to cook on TV. But even with so many cooking shows, our rate of eating out is still very high -- it's even become buying a bento to bring home and eat while watching cooking shows. Don't you all think that's contradictory? However, if you really want to support local friendly agriculture, then develop the habit of cooking! I know office workers are all very busy, and by the time they get off work it's already eight or nine o'clock.But on days off you can properly cook a meal for yourself or your family, buy some better ingredients, treat yourself a little better, and at the same time use your actions to support Taiwan's local agricultural products or animal-friendly meat.Cooking at home really doesn't need to be fancy. Sometimes when I share photos of Half-Orc cooking, it's also to encourage everyone to get hands-on and cook!

Q7: Facing an unknown future, what abilities or qualities do you think children need? How do you cultivate the corresponding energy in children in daily life?

Peng:Half-Orc's situation is actually quite special. He has never been very smooth in interpersonal relationships, and teachers also felt this child was careless and unreceptive to teaching. I myself was often given this kind of comment by teachers when I was young, so I know that feeling. This kind of situation usually just means the person isn't interested in something. The more you push, the more counterproductive it becomes. So after discussing it with him, this year we decided to let him try homeschooling for one semester. Half-Orc has always had the dream of becoming a marine biologist. As long as it's within our ability, we try to support him. Whatever is lacking, we'll see how he fills it in himself when he grows up. So this semester we had him take a freediving course, and also incorporated farming into his nature curriculum. Based on the attitude and perseverance he's shown so far, homeschooling seems to suit him quite well. But his younger sister Pineapple is completely unsuited to it. Pineapple very much needs to socialize and interact with people, and she has a lot of her own ideas. As a mother, I guide where I can, but I don't force them too much about what they must become in the future. My own childhood was filled with cram schools and extracurricular classes, and I found what I truly wanted to do very late. Looking back, I feel those things wasted a lot of time for exploration and learning. So after becoming a mother,I chose to respect what my children want to do, but I let them know they must take responsibility for their own actions, and I hand the steering wheel of their lives over to them.

Fan:Life is very mysterious. Children really are independent individuals. My two children are so close in age, but their personalities, the foods they like, and their thoughts about their future lives are completely different. The older one, for example, still aspires to become a sociologist, while the younger one has always been interested in biology and life sciences, and thinks studying social science would require reading too much text -- too tiring. But no matter how different children's personalities and interests are, I always believe that as human beings, some universal values are classical and unchanging.Personally, I think three qualities are very important: empathy, a thirst for knowledge, and grit. A person with empathy won't discriminate, won't say the wrong things, and won't make wrong decisions. A person with a thirst for knowledge, no matter what field they work in, can keep up with the changes in the world and won't fall behind.And grit is what lets a child focus on the things they're passionate about. I hope my children can pursue their ideals continuously, steadily, and with the ability to endure loneliness. So I encourage my children to read. Children in their teenage years spend a lot of time making friends, exploring relationships, and scrolling on their phones. I still gently remind them that no matter what, they should maintain the quantity and quality of their reading.Books contain a lot of knowledge to stimulate children's critical thinking. I also often discuss and chat with my children, exchanging each other's thoughts and experiences. After all, empathy and grit are quite abstract -- there's no one-two-three or SOP for them. Encouraging reading, parents leading by example, and respecting children's developmental inclinations -- it's all accumulated little by little.

Bento Dish Sharing

Saffron